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Andrew
01-31-2006, 05:25 AM
OK I've been digging around in my clutter and came up with this old Agfa/Ansco which I'd forgotten I even had... very Freudian because I got it on eBay and found it didn't take 120 film as was advertised!

Not sure what model it is but it has a "viking f6.3 anastigmat" lens and takes 2 1/2 x 4 1/4 inch negs on "PD-16 Agfa film" I think this is equivalent to 116 Kodak?

overall it seems in very good cosmetic condition, the bellows seem OK and the shutter works but sticks and would probably need to be cleaned and lubed (but nothing too fancy).

SO THE QUESTION IS/ ARE

the cam could be easily modified to take 120 roll film but is it worth keeping as a lens camera?

the 120 film will fit inside the camera without touching the edges so does it matter that the top and bottom film edge won't be supported ie will film tension hold it flat and still enough?

if it was used as is the red window would line up with the 1 thru 16 marks... would it be a big hassle to try to get the naximum of 7 shots per roll by rolling onto intermediate positions or would it be better to just put up with using the whole number markings and get 5 shots?

I've attached one pic of the camera and one of its film spool next to a 120 spool for size comparison

you can probably tell I'm not sure where to go with this one... any advice, guys?

Attached files http://f295.f295.org/uploads/viking_4756.jpg (http://f295.f295.org/uploads/viking_4756.jpg) http://f295.f295.org/uploads/spools_2513.jpg (http://f295.f295.org/uploads/spools_2513.jpg)

earlj
01-31-2006, 07:16 AM
Andrew, I have modified an old Kodak Hawkeye folder from 116 to 120. I made some spacers for the ends of the spools to keep the film centered in the film path. I had some trouble with light getting through the film counter window and fogging the edges, so I made a 6X9 mask out of black cardboard that I glued to the film path. This supports the edges of the film and keeps it flat against the spring back of the camera. I use the regular film counter window - it lines up pretty will with the bottom row of numbers - I just use 2,4,6,8, etc.

staft
01-31-2006, 08:48 AM
i have run 35mm through a 116 camera, and didn't mind the distortions from film curl (but then i wasn't exactly after accuracy). if you will use it as a lens camera, keep it, but if realistically it will see more action as a pinhole, i say go for it. besides, the lens can always be reset!

moot
01-31-2006, 01:29 PM
Sticking shutter is a problem for lens use, not so much with pinhole. Film flatness is a problem for lens use, not so much with pinhole. If the bellows leaks it is a problem for lens use, for pinhole you can get rid of it.

Film spool spacers are an issue for either one.

Seems to me that you deal with the spacers, then try it out with the lens. If you can't hold the film flat enough or can't get the shutter to work properly, it wants to be a pinhole camera. Ought to make nice wide negs either way.

underbyte
01-31-2006, 05:49 PM
I don't know if this helps, but I ripped the spool holder from the supply side out of this viking because I didn't feel like doing a whole lot of work on this camera. After I took out the spool holder, a 120 roll fits, and the film flatness does not seem to be compromised (certainly not for pinhole). This is the ugliest taped up monsterpiece of a camera but it turns out some decent images.

Attached files http://f295.f295.org/uploads/viking1_4196.jpg (http://f295.f295.org/uploads/viking1_4196.jpg) http://f295.f295.org/uploads/viking2_8172.jpg (http://f295.f295.org/uploads/viking2_8172.jpg) http://f295.f295.org/uploads/viking3_1212.jpg (http://f295.f295.org/uploads/viking3_1212.jpg)

Andrew
01-31-2006, 08:08 PM
thanks guys... all input is gratefully accepted !!!

main thing I hear is:
nobody's saying it's such a great model folder that I should just fix it up to use as it is...

Perez
01-31-2006, 09:29 PM
I had the same issue with this camera:
http://f295.tompersinger.com/cgi-bin/Blah/Blah.pl/Blah.pl?b-cm/m-1133749669/

ImageMaker
01-31-2006, 11:08 PM
Andrew, the spool you've pictured is 616, not 116 -- film is the same, only spool differs (just like 120 vs. 620). The excuse for 616 was the camera could be more compact with the skinnier core and smaller flanges, but still hold the same amount of film.

On the 616 conversions I've read about, the film stays flat enough to make a decent image, and the Viking Anastigmat is a reasonably competent triplet. Given you've got a 616 spool for takeup, I'd suggest using a couple coins or some felt furniture pads (sold to prevent furniture scratching a wood floor, etc.) to center up a 120 on the supply side, use the existing 616 spool for takeup, and run a roll through to check (unload in the dark to avoid edge fogging). The frame counting will be the same as with Daryl's Brownie Target Six-16 conversion -- 2 1/2, 5, 7 1/2, 10, 12 1/2, and 15 to get 6 frames on the 120 roll; nowhere near enough film to fit seven frames even if you could narrow the spacing a bit. You'll get "over the frame markings" images like the ones Daryl and I have posted from the Target, but that does little harm. I would suggest taping over the outer 1/3 of the red window to avoid light spilling around the edge of the film and fogging, however.

If you find it has too many light leaks etc., consider keeping the lens -- that shutter would be easy to clean, and the 120 mm lenses commonly used on that format will cover 3x4, approximately, with no movements, meaning it could be useful for other projects. Focused close, it'll cover 4x5 and then some; it'd make a killer macro lens if you own a view camera... ;)