PDA

View Full Version : Spoonbridge With Cherry



earlj
04-21-2006, 06:52 AM
Salted paper print.
negative information: 4X5 J&C 100, 150 mm, f328, 24 seconds, 3/29/2005, PMK pyro
print information: Soutworth RD18CF 32 lb. resume paper, salted with 2% sodium chloride + 2% sodium citrate using a glass coating rod, sensitized with 12% silver nitrate using a glass coating rod, exposed for 20 minutes under 13w BLB spiral fluorescent, processed in water, 10% plain hypo (2 baths), Kodak hypo clearing agent

I puposely chose a sheet with the watermark right in the middle to see if it shows - it does. You can see it on the spoon, just under the cherry.

Here's a strange observation: tests with sodium chloride - 100% successful; tests with ammonium chloride - 100% failures. The ammonium chloride prints have all come out very weak. All the literature that I can see says that these two salts are interchangeable, and none of the articles specify a difference in measurement from one to the other. I don't see how it is possible that Artcraft sent me some bad chemical, so does anyone have an idea as to why the difference? Attached files http://f295.f295.org/uploads/saltspoonbridge_4081.jpg (http://f295.f295.org/uploads/saltspoonbridge_4081.jpg)

staft
04-21-2006, 07:49 AM
chemistry aside (i know nothing, colonel hogan) this is the best image i have seen of the oldenberg- the walker should be alerted to this one.

Marv
04-21-2006, 08:44 AM
Thje subject was definately made for this image. The tones of this are very nice and the paper texture adds to the vintage look.

All in all very nice.

moot
04-21-2006, 09:14 AM
I can offer nothing WRT to the ammonium chloride, but it looks like you've got the process with NaCl dialed in nicely.

stormy
04-21-2006, 09:16 AM
WHat a fun whimsical sculpture!

earlj
04-21-2006, 09:42 AM
Stormy:

This is one of the signature art objects of the city of Minneapolis. Go look at the website for the Walker Art Center Sculpture Garden to find out more.

http://garden.walkerart.org/artwork.wac

The stem of the cherry is a fountain that sprays a fine mist out over the pond in the summer.

cnmne
04-21-2006, 09:55 AM
Fun image!

There's something about the salted paper process that reminds me of a charcoal drawing -- maybe the paper texture. Anyway, it seems to create another dimension in the image. Very intriguing.

stormy
04-21-2006, 10:01 AM
Hey - thanks for the tour, Earl! I love sculputure gardens - and there's a lot of whimsy in this one. You've shown us Standing Frame before - I like that one very much. And the cherry looks good in the snow.

gneissgirl
04-21-2006, 10:50 AM
Wonderful! I love the disconnect between the "vintage" feel imparted by the process and the "modern" look of the subject. Yet, as others say, the two meld seamlessly! Keep up this great alt-process stuff!

dvoracek
04-21-2006, 12:27 PM
Pretty spectacular, Earl. It's amazing how reminiscent this and your other salted paper prints are of the quality of Talbot's prints.

MarkB
04-21-2006, 12:40 PM
Very nice...a great shot of a sculpture that always captures my eye... my father was involved in fabricating it nearly 20 years ago. I will send him the link to your image.

rach_miles
04-21-2006, 01:12 PM
the process is well beyond my limited knowledge and 'beginners' capability, but it amazes and inspires me as to what some people do! mix of old and new, great tones, great texture. nice!

buggy
04-21-2006, 01:43 PM
Very nice print.

Are the sodium chloride and citrate mixed together or coated seperately?

You prob need IM to answer your chemical question. This is just a thought, maybe the 2 sodiums react nicely because they are both sodiums. When you try to put ammonium with sodium that might be the prob. This has no basis in chemistry it's just a thought.

ImageMaker
04-21-2006, 01:54 PM
Ammonium chloride is, IIRC, more soluble; it might be that it's not depositing in the paper as well as the sodium chloride. You could try increasing the amount, or mixing the two in varying proportions. As suggested, if you're mixing ammonium chloride with sodium citrate, you might be getting "mixed" salt as is, but in a manner that leaves too much citrate and not enough chloride in the paper. I'm not sure silver citrate is even light sensitive the way silver halides are, though it seems likely to be (almost every other silver compound is, other than the oxide, sulfide, and selenide).

earlj
04-21-2006, 02:52 PM
Pretty spectacular, Earl. It's amazing how reminiscent this and your other salted paper prints are of the quality of Talbot's prints.

Nick - It's no accident that they look like Talbot's prints - they are using the same ingredients that he used. The scanned images do not convey the image and paper colors accurately. The bridge image that I posted was redder than this one (no sodium citrate). This one is a little more purple. Toning in selenium moves the image toward a dark brown. I am unhappy with the image loss that seems to accompany the selenium toning - I might have to bite the bullet and order some pd/pt/au for toning before the fix.


Are the sodium chloride and citrate mixed together or coated seperately?

I made up a salting solution of 2 grams sodium chloride and 2 grams of sodium citrate dissolved in 100 ml distilled water. I then coated this solution onto plain paper with a glass coating rod. After it was dry, I coated 12% silver nitrate solution with a glass rod. You could use a brush for both operations. You can also soak the sheets in the salt solution, and then coat the silver nitrate later with brush or rod. This process is so simple, it's scary. The part that is annoying is the mixing of the fixer and hypo-clear for each session. I usually don't have the time to run a bunch of prints through, so I end up mixing up new chemicals for just a few sheets. At least with cyanotypes, the wet processing only involves water.


Ammonium chloride is, IIRC, more soluble; it might be that it's not depositing in the paper as well as the sodium chloride.

The truth is I have not tried ammonium chloride and sodium chloride using the same method yet. I have only used sodium chloride for plain salted paper (with and without sodium citrate). I used ammonium chloride for my first try at albumen paper and for my attempt at arrowroot paper. Time to get scientific again - plain salted paper with ammonium chloride only. Come to think of it, if I like the sodium chloride look, why do I need ammonium chloride at all?

bino
04-23-2006, 03:40 AM
Earl, thank you very much!
WOW! I love this one!

Bino

ImageMaker
04-23-2006, 06:35 PM
Come to think of it, if I like the sodium chloride look, why do I need ammonium chloride at all?

One of life's most important rules: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Of course, if you're an engineer, that becomes: if it ain't broke, fix it until it is. ;)