rise and "movements" on a pinhole camera

[Ned.Lewis]

I've noticed several of you here add the ability to have "rise" on your pinhole cameras. I know with a view camera, you can use rise to straighten out diverging lines. And I understand that with a pinhole camera, it would change the perspective. Sometimes I move the pinhole up a little on my solargraphy cans to include a bit more sky.

I have two questions:

1) With a pinhole camera and it's "true geometry", does rise have a similar effect as in a lensed view camera?

2) How do you know when to use it and how much to use, without a ground glass screen? Just a matter of practice?

I continue to be impressed by the wonderful photos and information on f295!
Cheers!

-Ned

[MartinS]

Hi,
I (among many others here) have experimented with "rise", now I am in process of building two cameras with shift capability. I think I can answer your questions:
1/ Yes. It is pure geometry. The effect is the same.
2/ There are two possibilities -- you can use flexible "viewing triangles" (as Renon has done here: http://www.f295.org/main/showthread....ssom-5x7/page3), or (my preferred way, still to be constructed on my cameras) you can use fixed wide angle wiewfinder (like 180 degree door peephole) and wire frame fixed to the front standard of the camera and moving with it. The wire frame must be of the same size as the negative and the viewfinder has to be in proper distance from it, roughly corresponding to the "focal length" of the camera. I hope I will be able to present the second solution here soon :-)

Regards,

Martin

[Ned.Lewis]

Thanks that makes perfect sense. Flexible viewing triangles... elegant simplicity. The movable wire frame is a great idea too!

[DaveBell]

Yes! I like the moveable frame idea, as well!

Another approach might be a piece of film, with a clear "window" corresponding (scaled) to the negative size.
It could slide within a viewfinder box, and wouldn't be as vulnerable to handling damage as a wire frame.

Dave

[earlj]

I have been thinking about the effects of rise and fall for the same purpose as Jimmy G's 6x17 camera - to be able to place the horizon higher or lower on the image plane with the camera kept level. This will allow me to put the camera on the ground without too much looming foreground. The lower pinhole location (front fall) would be used to place the horizon higher on the image plane for shooting with the camera on a bridge railing or from the roof of a parking ramp. I can accomplish this with my ems pinholes just by installing multiple pinhole locations on the front of the camera, and then use the one most appropriate. I don't worry too much about viewfinders - I have lines on the tops of all my cameras connecting the edge of the film with the pinhole location for left and right, but the vertical field of view is harder for me to sight accurately. This is especially true for cylindrical (tin can) cameras. It's not too hard to visualize what is going to show up on your image, as long as you remember that the image on the film is upside down and backwards. Thus, if the camera is perfectly level (with the film perpendicular to the ground) the sky is at the bottom of the image, and lowering the pinhole will move the horizon closer to the top of the image, and raising the pinhole on the front of the camera will move the horizon closer to the bottom of the image.

[Jimmy G]

As Earls says...up = more sky, down = more ground. For my pano cam the perspective effect is small but the effect of moving the horizon 10mm off centre makes my compostions way better.
If you want to see perspective correction for buildings and the like Scott Speck (member) has been getting some sweet results lately using 4x5 and shooting buildings. He set's up level and uses 2" of rise when shooting buildings - that's only 1/2" of film above the pinhole...hence the horizon is 1/2" off the bottom of the frame.
Have a look here..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/41427422@N00/8562399704/

[renon]

Somehow we must have a magic connection. In the last weeks more and more people started to use pinhole cameras with rise/fall possibilities. I learned to love camera movements with my large format lens cameras. The turnable part of the new front I made for my Fuji Cherry Blossom camera I have also the possibility to shift left and right. Usually this is not so important but for one of the recent pictures I was happy that I could do it as I was limited where I could place the tripod.

[Ned.Lewis]

I saw Jimmy's a little while ago, and then another this morning by "Wheelmax" over on flickr. What prompted my question is a popcorn can in my garage that will soon turn into a pinhole camera.... an 11x14 paper will fit, but I was thinking that 8x14 might be a good format too, and one that I can develop more easily. Which led to the idea of multiple pinholes at different heights. I think that's just like what Earl described above.

My first thought was to put the pinholes in different locations around the can for different formats...but in a line is better to allow rise or fall, and have options for any format!

I've been making 5x7 paper negatives for quite a while, but I'm really looking forward to seeing what an 8x10 or 11x14 negative looks like. Also to use my new 11x14 contact printing frame!

[MartinS]

Another approach might be a piece of film, with a clear "window" corresponding (scaled) to the negative size.
It could slide within a viewfinder box, and wouldn't be as vulnerable to handling damage as a wire frame.

Dave, you are right. It is surely possible to scale down the "frame" (and the distance). However, it creates another technical problem: you have to scale down the movement correspondingly. I was thinking about it as well several times, since the smaller viewfinder would be more elegant and practical, but I haven't found any solution, at least none I would be able to make on my kitchen table :-)

[Jim Jones]

Press cameras usually have a rising front and often include a wire frame finder. We have to allow for parallax when using the wire frame. One way around this is to have a lens board with a cheap lens that can be substituted for the pinhole board when setting up the shot. Using film holders in press cameras is also more convenient than cameras that must be loaded in the darkroom. The most versatile press camera in America is the Speed Graphic. Often less expensive, but quite adequate except for a lack of a focal plane shutter are the Busch and the Burke & James cameras.