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Thread: Photon Sieve , How to create that look with converting Vermeer 6x6 ?

  1. #1

    Question Photon Sieve , How to create that look with converting Vermeer 6x6 ?

    sieve_2.jpg

    Hello there,

    I found above photon sieve image at web , photographer reports that photon sieve was too large and image was unrecognisable . My sister bought me a vermeer camera which was back loaded , 6x6 and with 0.2 pinhole.

    I want to learn,

    Where can I find such a photon sieve for that look ?

    How can I convert above camera to photon sieve ?

    What is the meaning of too large photon sieve ?

    Thanks and Hello to all old friends ,

    Mustafa Umut Sarac
    Istanbul

  2. #2
    A photon sieve is like a zone plate but with holes rather than fresnel bands. Zone plates and photon sieves need to be sized for the a specific focal length in order for them to focus, or give a reasonable soft focus look. There is a great sieve or zone plate making app on the web at this link, http://www.whizkidtech.redprince.net/zoneplate/ The results you get from this need to be rephotographed on to high contrast film that will be used as the sieve or zp. Lith film in a 4x5 lens camera work. I've also used 35mm Kodak Tech Pan shot in a digital film recorder then developed to extreme high contrast. This is how I've made them in the past for the pinhole cameras I sell.
    Chris
    --
    Check out my pinhole sets at Flickr flickr.com/photos/pinholeblender/
    and my cameras at www.pinholeblender.com

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by pinholeblender View Post
    A photon sieve is like a zone plate but with holes rather than fresnel bands. Zone plates and photon sieves need to be sized for the a specific focal length in order for them to focus, or give a reasonable soft focus look. There is a great sieve or zone plate making app on the web at this link, http://www.whizkidtech.redprince.net/zoneplate/ The results you get from this need to be rephotographed on to high contrast film that will be used as the sieve or zp. Lith film in a 4x5 lens camera work. I've also used 35mm Kodak Tech Pan shot in a digital film recorder then developed to extreme high contrast. This is how I've made them in the past for the pinhole cameras I sell.
    Hello Chris and all,

    I visited the link and there are countless details to design a photon sieve. I am fully inexperienced in that art and I want to get the same look at the picture. I have no idea what was the focal lenght , sieve count or wavelenght. And I dont have any access to developers , fixers or reasonable camera.

    From all f:295 experience , what was the parameters of that pictures photon sieve ? And whom can produce it for me for a fee
    with paypal ?

    Thank you,

    Umut

  4. #4
    And I want to ask , how red correction or blue correction in design of pin sieve effects posted image. There red , green and blue looks good.
    Last edited by mtumut; 04-03-2014 at 01:32 PM.

  5. #5
    With a google search for zone plate photography I found this Instructable article on how to print a zone plate from the whizkid app. http://www.instructables.com/id/PHOT...epla/?ALLSTEPS The B&W picture shows the quality of focus a usual zone plate or photon sieve usually has. This is what the original photographer was probably complaining about because the image above is unrecognizable. For the color of the lens, a simple lens, pinhole, zone plate or glass lens focuses each wave length of light to a slightly different point. You can decide with this app what point to focus to. Our eyes primarily see green light but B&W film is more sensitive to blue light. If you focussed a simple lens image in a view camera then used B&W film the image will be slightly out of focus because you focused on the green light but the film saw primarily the blue which was not in focus. This is called "chemical focus". Multiple element lenses correct for this problem. Maybe I should get my film recorder out and make some different photon sieves and zone plates. I found that these zone plates os sieves worked best with larger film sizes and longer focal lengths. I have some 7 zone 30mm focal length zone plates that I've made for my mini series of cameras but find the effect too sharp whereas when I used a 60mm focal length camera and zone plate the focus was more pleasingly soft. My best looking images came from a 4x5 camera with a 120 mm focal length. Maybe for you an out of focus zone plate or sieve work work. The only way to know is to try a correctly made zone plate and compare it to one that is the wrong size.
    Last edited by pinholeblender; 04-05-2014 at 08:22 AM.
    Chris
    --
    Check out my pinhole sets at Flickr flickr.com/photos/pinholeblender/
    and my cameras at www.pinholeblender.com

  6. #6
    Hello Chris and all,

    I worked at prepress industry for 5 years and I printed 70x210 films everyday. As far as I know , ordering from prepress house is very expensive if they use drum image setter. When I was leaving at 2000 , they were printing with agfa printers connected directly to mac and no need of darkroom , separated developing machine.It was fast like a rabbit compared to dinasours. But I dont have no idea what is going on today.

    Is there a prepress house which accepts orders via internet and quote for paypal ? I dont want to leave the house and istanbul is extremelly big , crowded and I dont want to dive in to it.If anyone have a suggestion for prepress house , I would be grateful.

    For above picture , is focal lenght of photon sieve is more than the box needed or less than the box needed.

    Is there anyone who gets unrecognizable , full of color , grain image from his her pin sieve ? I would like to hear your experience .

    For color correction , I think afaik , if I want unrecognizable image , there is no need of specific search.

    Thanks,

    Umut

  7. #7
    Mustafa,
    i don't know how did you find this photon sieve image, but this is taken from my website. Maybe you should contact me first- - i made this picture , photon sieve and i am making Vermeer pinhole cameras. This one sieve was made on Agfa Avantra image setter,this no big deal to make it
    Regards,
    Cezary

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by cezarioo View Post
    Mustafa,
    i don't know how did you find this photon sieve image, but this is taken from my website. Maybe you should contact me first- - i made this picture , photon sieve and i am making Vermeer pinhole cameras. This one sieve was made on Agfa Avantra image setter,this no big deal to make it
    Regards,
    Cezary
    Cezary,

    Thank you for your message. My sister presented me an Vermeer F170 6X6 camera , your creation !! Excellent camera but I think I need a tripod also , can you confirm that.

    May be I got above image from your website unintentionaly but I love it.

    Can you teach me how to DESIGN such a photon sieve with your parameters. I need a file copy of the photon sieve or its design parameters plus a way to convert your camera in to it.

    World is small

    Thank you,

    Mustafa Umut

  9. #9
    Mustafa,
    take a look at image attached. I made that blurry shot using first left photon sieve. It wasn't calculated in any program. I found sample via google and made high drawing in Adobe Illustrator. That was my first attempts to pinhole/zone plate photography and i had no idea how to calculate photon sieve size. I tested this sieve at 5-6mm diameter- much oversized. That's the reason why image is so blurry.
    I'm afraid that you will not able to attach zone/plate to Vermeer 66 owned by you. Camera has rotating shutter and it will be very hard expose film if time will be around 1sec or less
    Cezary
    Attached Images Attached Images

  10. #10
    If you want to go the technical route and design your own then you can get the details at http://pinhole.stanford.edu/zoneplatemath.htm.

    That said, there are numerous types of photon sieves and you can get some of the more technical explanations at http://www.photonsieve.de/.

    The ones I use look like the first one Cezary posted (which is my avatar) and my quick and dirty way to make them is to print one on matt paper, affix it to the wall, then photograph it (alas, I no longer have TechPan so I use Adox CMS 20).

    Cheers -

    george

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