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Thread: blurred pics in first attempt

  1. #1

    blurred pics in first attempt

    first, *hello everyone!*

    i just processed the film of my first pinhole camera attempt, and it resulted all blurred, like out of focus. my pinhole is about 0.3 mm wide (maybe smaller, didn't have anything to measure), is it too small causing diffraction, or too big?

    any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance to anyone can enlighten me!

    cheers,

    y.

  2. #2

    blurred pics in first attempt

    Hi Yann, welcome.

    The first question is: how blurry? Much more blurry than the images you see on this site?

    What is the separation between the pinhole and the film (or paper)? While having a pinhole that is too large or too small can result in blurry images, it takes a pretty large error to make an image that is *really* blurry.

    Was the image recognizable as the subject you were photographing? The reason I ask is that light leaks might create an "image", that is, patterns of light and dark but not anything that looks like the subject. Usually in a new camera, light leaks or some sort of obstruction are more likely culprits than a bad pinhole.

    Any chance you could post the image?

  3. #3

    blurred pics in first attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by moot
    Hi Yann, welcome.

    The first question is: how blurry? Much more blurry than the images you see on this site?
    much more than some of them, some have a very sharp focus among the user posted pics, and pics i've seen with a similar camera too (from another website - matchbox cameras).

    What is the separation between the pinhole and the film (or paper)? While having a pinhole that is too large or too small can result in blurry images, it takes a pretty large error to make an image that is *really* blurry.
    the focal distance is about 18mm.

    Was the image recognizable as the subject you were photographing? The reason I ask is that light leaks might create an "image", that is, patterns of light and dark but not anything that looks like the subject. Usually in a new camera, light leaks or some sort of obstruction are more likely culprits than a bad pinhole.
    yes, the subject is pretty much recognizable in the image.

    Any chance you could post the image?
    for now, no, don't have access to a scanner.

    thx for replying

  4. #4

    blurred pics in first attempt

    18 mm is a very short f.l. camera. The 'ideal' pinhole would be much smaller than 0.3 mm. Try pinholedesinger.cz for calculator

    Pinhole images are formed purely by diffraction. (There is no refraction and usually no reflection).

    Murray

  5. #5

    blurred pics in first attempt

    if no scanner... how about a digital camera that'll focus close enough to take a reasonable picture?

    the other thing is that if you're using 35mm film the image quality will always be poor when compared to larger format negs
    so you'll need to make comparisons with other 35mm negs and not pics from negs that are much bigger

  6. #6

    blurred pics in first attempt

    What they said.

    There was a brief discussion here awhile back as to why some small format pinhole looked sharp and some didn't, even with cameras that were similar. One conclusion was that small format cameras are particularly suited to close subjects where the detail is large compared to the film. Distant subjects have detail that your eye can see (and that you expect to see) but that is too small for the camera to resolve so it looks fuzzier. Might be worth considering.

    OTOH, sometimes fuzzy is good!

  7. #7

    blurred pics in first attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by apn
    if no scanner... how about a digital camera that'll focus close enough to take a reasonable picture?

    the other thing is that if you're using 35mm film the image quality will always be poor when compared to larger format negs
    so you'll need to make comparisons with other 35mm negs and not pics from negs that are much bigger
    the size of the film has no importance because it will always allow much more accuracy than what the human eye can see on a 10*15 cm paper print. the film grain is not visible on the pics (and it is not a problem with the lab either because the edges of the picture, designed by the cardboard, are sharp). if you're talking about posters it does have an importance but for small paper formats it is equal (excepted for 3200 ISO films and such of course!)

  8. #8

    blurred pics in first attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by moot
    What they said.

    There was a brief discussion here awhile back as to why some small format pinhole looked sharp and some didn't, even with cameras that were similar. One conclusion was that small format cameras are particularly suited to close subjects where the detail is large compared to the film. Distant subjects have detail that your eye can see (and that you expect to see) but that is too small for the camera to resolve so it looks fuzzier. Might be worth considering.

    OTOH, sometimes fuzzy is good!
    i don't get how a detail could be too small for the camera... any explanation?

    i guess i should post the pic for more help, anyway thanks all for trying!

  9. #9

    blurred pics in first attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by yann
    i don't get how a detail could be too small for the camera... any explanation?
    I was afraid you'd ask that. :P

    In one of the pinhole forums fidget posted a great image of keys hanging in a lock.

    http://f295.f295.org/uploads/Blah.pl?b-cm/m-1148374506/s-new/

    The shape of the keys, the reflections that show the keys are metal, the shadows and the details of the door are all large with respect to the minimum spot size the pinhole can show. We don't really expect to see too much more detail without a magnifier. Use the same camera to shoot a landscape and there will be detail that is smaller than even a film grain, so it just sort of trails off into a blur and your eye expects to see the finer detail that isn't resolved. The result is that the closeup looks sharper than the landscape, even though they were taken with the same camera. It's probably more psychology than optics.

    I'm sure that explanation isn't nearly as clear as the previous discussion, which unfortunately I couldn't locate. I seem to recall it being in the context of matchbox cameras, but my search didn't find it. I hope this made at least some sense. :

  10. #10

    blurred pics in first attempt

    Quote Originally Posted by moot
    The shape of the keys, the reflections that show the keys are metal, the shadows and the details of the door are all large with respect to the minimum spot size the pinhole can show. We don't really expect to see too much more detail without a magnifier. Use the same camera to shoot a landscape and there will be detail that is smaller than even a film grain, so it just sort of trails off into a blur and your eye expects to see the finer detail that isn't resolved. The result is that the closeup looks sharper than the landscape, even though they were taken with the same camera. It's probably more psychology than optics.

    I'm sure that explanation isn't nearly as clear as the previous discussion, which unfortunately I couldn't locate. I seem to recall it being in the context of matchbox cameras, but my search didn't find it. I hope this made at least some sense. :
    yep, not really clear and i'm not the kind to imagine i understand when i don't
    ...if it were psychological, it would be the same for normal cameras...

    didn't have my answer but it's good to see ppl trying so hard thx!

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